Gvarvins >> miércoles marzo 27 - 09:06

Correct me if i am wrong, but at least for me U21 is just repetitive task of setting up lineups, to get 20x450 epx and some position experience for all the players, and games as such are completely useless. Well, you can open and close it to get 0.5 credits, but that is all. Not even worth to look at final score :(

The same amount of fun would be achieved by simply handing out free game/skil and position experience to all U21 players, but this could be made much more fun by only few minor adjustments:

1. Mechanism to handing out 20 game worth exp to U21 players not competing in league, to keep existing pace of player progression.

2. Adding some reasonable prizes/benefits for performing well in U21 league, to make it fun.

As for handing out exp, that needs to fit in with current limits - 20x per season. I do believe that could be some kind of "tokens" that could be spent either on games (gaining current bonuses) or some kind of "free training". "Free training" could be even turned into some kind of minigame, like manager putting up players to receive weekly bonuses, different kind of free bonuses, some kind of "menthor" system where older players are assigned as mentors to younglings, and younglings getting some benefits based on menthor. Basically, some little bit of management for manager, to decide which players are getting "free training" and which ones will be playing games, and for course playing games beeing a tiny bit better option. And of course that minigame would be a way to fail for those managers who are currently failing to properly manage their U21 teams :D

As for prizes/benefits in U21 league... Well anything goes there. Reasonable financial prizes - a little bit booring, but probably one of the simplest ways. Some experience bonuses, like chances to get better trining morale for next season - why not, after all they ar winning, they should get some confidence boost. And even knowing that there is no reason not to play best players would make this tournament more competetive on it's own.

Numpty >> miércoles marzo 27 - 10:25, Editado miércoles marzo 27 - 10:27

If I understand you correctly, the idea is to make the U21s competitive by encouraging the teams to play their best U21 players in most of the matches. 

To do that then your proposal is to give all the U21s their 20 match experience whether they play or not, so the weaker ones don't need to play.  

It's a nice idea, but there are other problems that would also need to be addressed.

• The best U21s who are in the main squad may not want the risk of fatigue and injury. 
• Some U21s are selected for the first team, so that they get 500 xp rather than 450. 

With some improvements then the idea seems plausible, although personally I'd rather see the development effort going into producing lower level tournaments for the majority of clubs who don't play internationals rather than U21 tournaments.   

Looking at the forum history the U21 idea has been suggested many times before and never gotten any traction. 

onuelver >> jueves marzo 28 - 04:43

Why should i choose giving less xp to my best youngsters?? I play always some u21 players in first squad and where then fresh pulls will get their xp if i play only my 7 best youngsters? It will take several seasons to reach them 7 top players then.

Garfman >> jueves marzo 28 - 06:25

It's basically as Numpty said: ideas like these have been floated many times and there isn't much interest in that, nor is there any intention from the makers of this game to implement such a thing. The U21 league is intended for gaining experience.

And besides that, there is already the U21 YC.

Boy >> jueves marzo 28 - 07:05

Why wouldnt there be much interest? We are searching constantly to make this game more interesting. I, for one, would like to see U21 have a more normal league lay-out with the same statistics properties as in the main league. 

Besides managers that solely have the intention to become the best by winning the mayor honours there other managers that try to get fun from this game by other means. Statistics and minor cups or a meaningfull U21 league only helps to goals like those.

holt >> jueves marzo 28 - 09:55

@Boy There's lots of opposition cause it will stop the deveopment of younger players.The U-21 League sole puropse is XP. This surely isn't a good thing,but changing this would most likely destroy the game,mainly cause the 14-17 yr olds will play barely any matches.

Garfman >> jueves marzo 28 - 10:35

@Boy I'm simply relaying what has already been established through previous discussions about this subject. So we can have discussions until we're blue in the face, but it is very doubtful that anything will change in this respect. 

Gvarvins >> jueves marzo 28 - 15:21

i am not sugesting any drastic changes in growth process, or restrictions. i am just askin for options.

playing best younglings in first team or U21 matches would still be managers choice, and it would depend on benefits. probably winning U21 league could be even better then 20x50 extra experience. or probably not, but it would be an option to chose.

and as for fresh pulls, yes, getting some experience and growth for them is must have, but that is the main issue. we are forced to line up fresh pulls for most of the games, and it is killing any intherest about those games, but there could be alternative ways (individual trainings, mentoring system, full experience from 20 frendly games, or any other kind of minigame) for farming the same experience and growth for the youngest players, as a result giving us option playing 19+ in U21 and competing, but player growth can bet left the same.

it is basically a question about how are those 20 games worth of experience given to them. is it some choices for manager and probably some new content, or just mindlesly setting up lineups for games you dont even care to look for results. and currently more than half of the games (most of the frendlies and all U21 league) are run only to hand out some experience.

Boy >> jueves marzo 28 - 19:35

If others, or a group of mangers, find it more fun, isnt that a reason to at least listen to their opinion or wishes? I find it strange that u need to be convinced if others openly say that they find it would be more fun to them.

I understand that the developer doesnt want to go that way and thats his decision so it wont happen. I understand that. 

And stating there is only one purpose, does that mean it can not be debated? 

Frankly i do not care about the extra XP thing, but someone other may do.

I would like the stastics to be shown like in the normal league because i find it something worth looking at or playing for. How many goals, how many assist etc. Is it such a strange wish?

@Holt. Why would it stop the developement of younger players? If a manager has no interest in this U21 he still can play his weaker U21 player and they will develop. There is no need to compete in this league if your focus is on the main league and u can still use it to give XP to younger players.

I think it just an option to some managers to have some fun in following their U21 players

@Garfman. I understand that. And i know nothing will happen or change. But still it may be discussed and analysed i guess

Soumger >> jueves marzo 28 - 20:03

If the U-21 league becomes competitive the younger players won't play, why because why you would play a competitive game with your weakest players?

The stronger youth players are always the ones around 20 or 21, so they will be the ones who would play, and the younger ones will have luck to play 5 or more games, contrary to now were a just pulled player can play the 20 matches it needs fine.

So this will destroy the current development of players, because instead of starting their training after being pulled out of the youth centre they will start their carrer much later when they could be useful in that u-21 league.

Numpty >> jueves marzo 28 - 21:19, Editado jueves marzo 28 - 21:23

Personally I'm not bothered either way, so I don't have a horse in this race. 

Firstly, not everyone seems to understand the suggestion that has been put forward, so I'm hoping this will clarify it.

The idea is to change the U21s so that they are no longer used for experience. The U21s get given the same experience they would have gotten anyway whether they play or not. In which case the development of the U21s would not be affected or hindered in any way and they would improve at the same rate as currently.

There are other issues that would need to be addressed, such as position experience and U21s who get more experience playing in the main squad. 

If it were possible to do all that then I guess the U21 league could indeed be used as a competition, without fear of the players not developing as normal. 

Insofar as the point that many others have suggested something similar in the past; this speaks for itself. 

Clearly that proves the case that there is some interest. Albeit it may be a minority interest. But it is clearly there.

Soumger >> jueves marzo 28 - 21:59, Editado jueves marzo 28 - 23:24

If everyone gets experience regardless if they play or not, then what would be the point of the league?

It would simplified one aspects of the game, that is the development of the players, right now your job is to choose who will play each match to make sure that everyone gets all the possible experience and would just give another reason to be lazy to some managers, why bother to make the line up if nothing will be lost if they don't do it?

And at what point the players will start or stop getting experience? If one player is loaned he will or not get experience for playing in the loaned team main squad?

If not then people will just not have reason to loan them in first place and if they do then they will get an unjust advantage over those who weren't loaned

And it will also unjust to the managers that do care about their youths if a player of a team who never played a single match before getting 22 have the same experience (both for training and positional) that their player that have played since he was pulled out of the youth centre when he was 14.

So yeah, it will hurt the development of youth players in a form or another and there is already a competition to see who have the best youth team in the form of a cup.

Edit: more stuff

If a player will receive all the experience regardless if they played or not then why bothering with the youth academy or youths in general?

If the player will be equally good either way then most manager will just buying them when they turn 21/22 because that it's when their development will start to matter, why buying a player at 14 when you will have to wait 8 seasons to do something relevent with them? also the only worth youths will be the ones with extremely good talent, right now a player with 4.9/5 can help a beginner to start developing his team, but that change will kill any use they could have provided even more.

So not only will reward those who don't bother with youth players, it will kill the motivation  of developing someone own team from zero and will kill the transfer market even further

Numpty >> jueves marzo 28 - 22:42, Editado jueves marzo 28 - 22:44

Some good points Soumger.

As I said I'm not supporting the suggestion simply try to explain what I think he means.